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Monday, March 19, 2007

The Evolution Of "What Works"


Back when I first started this stuff, if a girl blew me off and I said "I think you´re being rude..." or "Hey, we´re talking..." this would have come across as very "bitter chode".

I see guys saying these things, and it´s basically the last nail in the coffin.

It´s sort of the stereotype of the guy being blown off by the hot girl -- "Heeeeeeey.... Come baaaaaaaaaack...." as the girl struts off looking all hot and indifferent.

Let´s say you´re a newbie who clearly lacks the value to be approaching this girl, and you´re taking a shot and doing it anyway.....

She doesn´t like it....

So you whine about it....

Not cool.

In order to deal with this back in the day, I came up with a slew of techniques to fixate the girl´s attention on me.

One of those techniques was just to launch into a routine and get her laughing, and if I got her laughing hard enough she´d have a change of heart and stay.

It worked pretty well.

Now flash forward to the year 2007....... Woooooooo........

While I think what I was doing was very good, I´ve found that more and more lately I´m doing something revolutionary......

And that´s BEING HONEST.

I feel sort of like I´ve come full circle, at least in some respects.

If a girl tries to walk off in mid-conversation, or if her friend tries to pull her away, these days I just say "Hey.... What the fuck are you doing?? We´re talking." (This may be shocking to some who don´t frequent nightclubs, but this sort of thing is expected there).

I do this from a place of total honesty.

Bear in mind, this is not my "What the fuck are you doing?!" LINE.

If I´m not pissed, I might say "Where are you going?" more lightly -- although that would never happen as to me that could only be an inappropriate emotional response.

The point is that whatever is on my mind, I´m just letting it flow out of me WITH NO OUTCOME.

I could care less if she stays or leaves. I´m just speaking my mind of how fucked up it is that she´s doing that.

I find that oftentimes when I do this, the girl is so taken aback at the honesty and integrity of it, that she becomes attracted.


Recently a girl turned her back to walk off and for some reason I found that I´d grabbed her by the arm and said "BITCH WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!?!"

This is actually the second time this has happened, the first being on a workshop a month back.

She got extremly angry and replied "What did you just call me?!?!"

To which I replied "You heard what I said... Words are nothing, you´re a big girl... You just turned your back on me..."

This angered her further and she looked me right in the eye and said "Fuck you... Nobody calls me that.." to which I looked at her deeper and said "Nobody walks off on me..."

Of course, this was riding the edge pretty hard and there´s little doubt in my mind that if I´d backed down she´d have had the bouncers after me.

Kids, I´m a trained professional. Don´t try this at home.......

But it was interesting that was basically ADDICTED to me after doing this.

I don´t think the word "bitch" was necessary, or helped, or was even good at all. I wouldn´t personally use it again simply because I could have gotten the SAME result by expressing myself firmly without the slip up.

The point is that I´d gotten so in the habit of just speaking my mind and being honest that it accidentally slipped out.

And funny enough, while it might not be the "ideal" thing to say by any means, it was still better than saying something CONTRIVED because it was at least honest.

Of course, the question you´re probably asking yourself right now is "Can this work for ME??"

Well, being HONEST, I think it depends on where you´re at.

Again, if you´re a newbie and THE WAY YOU FEEL INTERNALLY is "I want this girl´s validation so fucking bad because I´m scared shitless" then honestly expressing how pissed you are that she isn´t VALIDATING you is pretty much tactless and counter-productive.

Now you might say "But I don´t care about her validation!!", but HONESTLY, unless you FEEL this in your body then it´s not yet actually TRUE.

I´m personally totally apathetic about validation. Being misrepresented in the media to the point where you can no longer derive satisfaction from other people´s PERCEPTIONS will do that to you.

Not to mention I´m on this spaced out headtrip about saving the planet from environmental destruction and creating intellectual material that makes the world a better place.

Embarassingly delusional, I know.

Point being it keeps me motivated and feeling, as David Deida would say -- "On my purpose".

So for me, coming across honest works. Very, very well.

For you.......... Who knows??

I guess what I´m trying to get across in this article is that what works for you CHANGES as you evolve.

The world is ever evolving, and YOU are evolving with it.

At least, one would hope.

Keep your head up!!


Tyler

32 comments:

Westley Pipes said...

It's going to be funny to see guys running around in the clubs calling girls Bitches now. Classic.

But the point is well taken. Obviously back then the routines helped you stay in the game, and now that you've internalized everything it can just flow. Like a NATURAL. Which is awesome bro.

Like some recent posts have been alluding to, it's important to monitor one's level in the game. Earlier on we need that structure, but later we must break free of it and fly freely. I'm still working on that myself. Kudos my man.

cheers


West

Anonymous said...

Hey man you reminded me to Dr.House! Seriously.

"Nobody walks off on me..."

I think that having the last word there created atracttion, you know you always got something better to say,and the fact that you were surely so congruent and upset with the shit that it just worked amazingly well.

JackDanielz

~Shazam! said...

Cool insights Tyler. I've noticed this which is that as I become better and the years go on, yes, I am being more honest. It comes with not caring about the outcome so much because you KNOW that you're a pimp. You KNOW that you can just call up one of your girls. Your own validation is already there for yourself. So you can be more risky by being more open and honest. And THAT'S where game has awesome potential to skyrocket.

~Shazam!

Alchermist said...

Looks like you're being more spiritual these days. I am on the same path and find myself being more and more honest.

Anonymous said...

Hey Tyler, cool post. How do you get to the point where you no longer need (or even want) a girls validation? (without going through all that media BS etc)

There have only been a handful of times when I've experienced true freedom from the validation of others. It's an awesome feeling but I can never maintain it for any substantial amount of time.

ware_ru said...

Unless I am misreading, the last part of this post seems to imply that pure unrestrained honesty is not the best tactic for everybody. I think this is the first time I've read this from the RSD staff recently. You guys have been telling us to put our personality on the line and just not give a fuck what anyone thinks. In this post you are keeping that second piece, but now maybe some things work better than honesty? I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, could you clear it up please?

Thanks,
ware_ru

Anonymous said...

Veddddy Eeenteresting...

Funny, cuz yesterday I just posted about the book "Getting Real" by Susan Campbell, where she talks all about "being in the present", and "seeing yourself without praise or blame" - which reminded me alot of the "new RSD" themes. It sounds like this post is saying something very similar.

One thing I can say from personal experience is that people almost NEVER respond to me being honest with them in the way that I'm worried they will. In fact, a lot of times they respect you more.

I remember a couple years ago, I was sitting with my boss and some co-workers. I was supposed to have read some document he gave me the night before. When he asked me if I'd read it, instead of coming up with an excuse, I just told him the truth (nah, I didn't read it cuz I was watching TV). Instead of getting mad, he just kinda chuckled and said, "At least you're honest", and moved past it.

I don't think it's a GOOD IDEA to tell your boss you were watching TV instead of working, but it's interesting to see how people respond when they can tell you're not B.S.-ing them.

Anyway, cool post!

-SeVenight

YseUp said...

There is clearly a difference between 'The things that PUAs do' and 'The things beginners and moderately skilled need to do in order to become PUAs'.

When you are a newbie it can be confusing choosing between all the contradictory advice. Shark and Badboy made the point that you should act as you would like to see yourself acting when you have become a PUA. I combined this rule with my own which is that when I'm in doubt over what action I should take I should always choose the more pro-active option. I devised this in order to prevent myself from bullshitting myself into taking the option that will hurt my ego least.

Of course when you get to a certain stage you start to wonder if you need to go back to being more structured and deliberate in order to get better. Something you described in a post title something like 'Nobody is above the Process' a couple of years ago.

PS

I'm glad to hear that you have a concern for for the environment and the well being of the human beings on the planet. It is also my mission to help make the world a better place.

Do you have a plan?

Anonymous said...

Tyler I am very happy and relieved you're drawing these conclusions about honesty, because for at least a year and a half, I'd been clanking the same ideas around in my head. Of the true "naturals" I've discussed PU with, they have universally told me that they are "honest" and "real" with girls and that most guys are fake.

Man, I used to believe that I constantly had to be consciously *doing* something to get attraction. I have to zing her with this line or mirror her bodylanguage or XYZ. But around 2005 I found out that if I was simply unreactive and *in the moment* , I could consciously *do* nothing and girls would be attracted to me.

I deeply suspect that girls have a kind of sixth sense that can detect the slightest incongruencies. I read the book "The Naked Ape" recently, by Desmond Morris, who is a zoologist. The book is an exploration of humans from a zoologist's standpoint.

One thing that caught my attention is the chapter describing child-rearing. Morris points out that when a child starts crying and gets flustered, parents will often make it worse by taking on panicky gestures, voice tones, and mannerisms.

He said that even if the mother tries to appear calm, puts on a smile, etc, the baby can see RIGHT THROUGH IT. The baby can detect its parents true emotional state through the SUBTLEST of subcommunications, and I think girls have something VERY similar to this.

For me, my results and my general comfort in social settings both increased when I stopped trying to be "one step ahead" of girls. It used to be that I'd try to anticipate a girl's next move so that I could outmaneuver her. I was following a linear map to get a specific reaction. The problem was that I was rarely, if ever, IN the moment. The girl was no longer a human being with which to connect, but a means to an end.

I think girls can detect when you're being honest with them and whether or not you're in the moment or if you have any agendas. I'm so convinced that they have this "sixth sense" that I've come to accept that trying to outsmart them by micromanaging subcommunications is both exhausting, dishonest AND ultimately futile (for me especially, I suck at any sort of deception).

I think this post is right on and I am happy to see that RSD is making use of common sense and ethics as opposed to the majority of the seduction community who is stuck in robotic thinking that seeks to achieve a result at any cost, be it integrity or overall personal fulfillment.

-Chance

Anonymous said...

The better you get the simpler the game gets.

Start with Routines

End Relaxed, unreactive you

Stonefish

Anonymous said...

One time a girl intereptuded me and I responded ''women you need to shut the fuck up and listen''. the look on her face was like ''fuck me right now''. I think it was radical honesty from myself, because I really felt this way and I wasn't expecting anything from her except to shut the fuck up and listen. She was a 9 by the way.

Anonymous said...

how many times have you done this in the field??? honestly?

--> "Being misrepresented in the media to the point where you can no longer derive satisfaction from other people´s PERCEPTIONS will do that to you"<-- What makes you think being misinterpreted in the media didn't work to your own advantage???

Anonymous said...

Hi tyler,

Really enjoying reading your blog, its like a breath of fresh air compared to most community stuff.

I think you make a great point here. A lot of pua stuff is dishonest in that it allows us to cover over strongly rooted beliefs and values with fake words or actions that are not in line who we really are. Being honest with girls and also ourselves is a new and scary concept, but im sure is more benefical in the long run.

Anonymous said...

This is just what I needed to hear after this weekend. I nearly had a snapback where I was telling myself, "maybe I should have been kinder," when there's nothing as powerful as being honest and in the moment.

In the long-term it is more important.

Anonymous said...

duude this is crazy, i did that this past weekend. i used the claw 3 diffrent times. 3 times when there friends were going to pull them away. i said dont be rude im talking , and they all stood there with a smile on there face. it was crazy stuff. it makes me think if i could of went for kiss close. o well ill try next time.

killthemquick

Anonymous said...

Haha! 'bout time. I like this!

Be whom you're meant to be; say what you know you should say. The answer is there. The courage to follow your gut pays dividends. Don't be scared.

This reminds me of what an old University of Texas professor of mine once said in lecture... 'always strive to be emotionally and intellectually honest'. Awesomely profound to me at the time.

"Run along now. Man talk time".

Tha claw always win!

Nathan

Anonymous said...

"I´m personally totally apathetic about validation. Being misrepresented in the media to the point where you can no longer derive satisfaction from other people´s PERCEPTIONS will do that to you."

I always feel like I have to perceive that I have DESTROYED my self in the eyes of others before I can really start living and truly live without seeking validation. This is not so much the target's validation in pick-up, but the observers' validation.

For example, suppose I'm walking out of a very crowded gym (or walking in a busy section of my university) on an ordinary day and feel myself a little bit uptight, so I feel an urge to just prove to myself I'm not, then I tell myself that I have to just yell as loud as I can right now in the most goofy and obnoxious manner--in front of all these peacefully walking-- so that people will think I'm weird and retarded just so I can prove to myself that I don't care what they think-- I don't need there validation.

The problem that I can foresee after I do this I am still seeking validation because I'll still hestitate to do an approach where there are a lot of onlookers even after doing that crazy act.

The reason is because during that approach, I know that not all the onlookers had seen my crazy act. It's almost like I have to perceive that I do the crazy act in front of everyone (e.g running around campus for an hour yelling in the most weird an obxious ways--in a way that would draw mass attention) in order to be truly comfortable in a later approach--because they I'll have perceived that EVERYONE has seen my act.

As a result, I feel that trying to prove yourself by doing these stunts can be actually approval seeking. By yelling obnioxsly you are saying "i'm not brave enough to do this approach (with 100% confidence and being your true self) where there are a lot of onlookers...so let me first scream as a way to tell you in advance that I do socially atyipcal acts, then you be less judgmental during my approach...somethign like that." I also think the reason why approaching when you are with your friends who know and accept that you approach to be approval seeking, because without there approval (there presense and knowing that they won't judge you) you aren't as confident.

I always feel that I must get 100 % true confidence that doesn't depend on friends, money, or looks before I have truly fixed my problems.

I don't know if this is really possible, at least not with droping, and letting go absolutely everything.


-improvingame

Anonymous said...

I have done this on occasion. I take a more "scolding for bad behavior" frame.
Like "Hey don't turn your back on me!"
And it does get the attracted.

I've also grabbed their arms and said "That was really rude" or said things like "You're dismissed. Go to your corner."

Tyler,
With all the shit that is nightgame, have you considered doing daygame only?

-Tribulus

Anonymous said...

so in time everyone is evolving and really finding out what works for them...... so what is that telling us!! should we drop all the gimmicks and rely our personality....but how can we have a kick ass time putting our personality on the line without using some kind of technique...so all the concepts of the old rsd are obselete which the new concepts of the new rsd are in the making!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

waz up Tyler, great article

WildFlower said...

I love how this article distinguishes between acting based on how you EXPECT to be treated based on internal validation, and reacting based on how you want people to treat you based on external validation.

Anonymous said...

One word: CONGRUENCY

Anonymous said...

So how is someone supposed to get to this level? Pass through the incongruence and validation seeking emotional undertones somehow? Passing through a phase of reactive routine-stacking material and such? Or can one just start being Real and doing what works?

Anonymous said...

Tyler,

How do you reconcile this perspective with your previous article on being genuine? I believe what you said was something like "unless you are a hottie or super socially proofed, you will not get the bitches just by being genuine."

This is a subtle point and really important. Please explain.

Sting said...

Hi TD -

i saw your thread on the forum directing us to this blog.
happy to help you get this place running - but, bro, the reason i and i'm guessing most forum members prefer the forum is because you reply and contribute to your own threads more over there.
food for thought.

What can i say about the article itself? - the last time i disagreed with something you said was probably the year twenty hundred and two.
the one just before this is great, too.
you've gone off on this Inner game tangent recently. while thats useful stuff - having the odd piece about outer stuff would be nice.
I'd like to hear about your current style/technique/structure for "comfort building". Not even a PU thing - lets call it "how to have a good conversation", shall we?
specifically, its escalation from small talk to intimate. all i've heard recently is about the famous claw and aggresive kino'ing!

thanks, bro,
cheerio,
Sting

Anonymous said...

"Not to mention I´m on this spaced out headtrip about saving the planet from environmental destruction and creating intellectual material that makes the world a better place.

Embarassingly delusional, I know."

Your lying, your not delusional and you know it.

Personally, I'm going to solve world poverty but if you think the enviornment the most pressing problem facing the world fair enough.

gruenfeld said...

nothing can stand the pressure of a true expression. you don't need a guide or tutorial on how to do this. this comes down to YOU and what you really are.

BigSend said...

Tyler I REALLY vibe with you

I'd wing with community guys claiming to do "TD method" and here is one example at Q's in Santa Monica:

Wing would just open, spit routines, and they would just plow. They would talk and talk, even cut girls off randomly in conversation and the girl would look around bewildered, sometimes make eye contact with me and give me a "wtf" look. I'd smile and look back and they'd smile at me. (Shit I just amog'd my wing :( Meanwhile the wing running the set keeps talking like a record player....

These community guys need to read the new Tyler shit

Montreal Dude said...

Are you as baffled as I am at what a bunch of sheep people basically are?

This is our hugest challenge of all, is to get right at the root of this mental illness.

One place we could start realistically, is in the educational systems.

What I would implement is some kind of core critical thinking system. We need the upcoming young minds to be literally incapable of being bullshitted. That advertising is seen for what is is, that they are taught how propaganda works, that religion is seen for what it is and why it was put in place....all of this bullshit, once and forever. OVER. Or we will kill ourselves as a species.

To implement this, you need to have massive power ( wealth ), get into government, and rally enough people to start the implementation of these memes.

You will come up against MASSIVE amounts of old-brain resistance.

The planet is run by about 800 to 900 people. We never see them, they distract you with false dichotomies. Left vs Right. BULLSHIT. see how the false arguements distract the populace from the hardcore facts that 800 to 900 people basically run this whole planet.

We need the new brains to be conditioned to see the old brains as destructive as they are and continue to be, The Haliburtons, The Enrons, etc, etc.

Forget the polluted old brains.

If you want to change the world, you have to change how people think. Period.

The operating systems we create out of the educational systems are deeply and profoundly flawed.

Focus on changing the new ones, get massive and radical change happening in the educational systems and fcuking soon.

Loco said...

"Not to mention I´m on this spaced out headtrip about saving the planet from environmental destruction [...]"

harhar, did you wanted that also before you read Fire in the Belly?

Anonymous said...

Technical difficulty

Hey there is a big gray box in the middle of this entry...seems like something didn;t get posted right or maybe because I have a mac, you might want to check it out in case its not my computer.

Kim said...

It had nothing to do with being honest or with the "bitch". "You heard what I said..." is the key. You didnt justify what you said, you didnt care what she thought about you and didnt start to apologize. Thats what girls like. Thats hot...

- Kim